pappasadrian έγραψε:απο το καναλι #ppgr
μετα απο ερωτηση μελους της επιτροπης διαιτησιας του PPI (Mozart)<Mozart> pappasadrian:
<Mozart> You here?
<pappasadrian> heya
<pappasadrian> strangely enough, i am
<Mozart>
<pappasadrian> what's up?
* Mozart has been reading emails.
<pappasadrian> aah
<Mozart> What does this PPGR email mean?
<pappasadrian> PPGR email?
<Mozart> "As a result of the Board Committees’ (from here on referred to as BC) reply to our inquiry regarding the representation of our party to the PP-EU Manchester conference dated 5/12/2012, the Arbitration Committee (from here on referred to as AC) has met in full composition and unanimously decided the following:
<Mozart> 1) To nullify, based on article 8.3.7 of the Statute, the aforementioned decision regarding the representation of PP-GR to the Manchester conference, since the BC did not convoke the mandatory official, open meeting required to make such a decision according to our Statute."
<pappasadrian> did they send it officially after al?
<Mozart> Is that nullifying Engel's position as PPGR's delegate to PPEU?
<pappasadrian> simple english -> PP-GR's delegate at Manchester's assembly, Gregory Engels, wasnt legitimately appointed
<pappasadrian> so the delegation is null
<Mozart> Awesome.
<pappasadrian> awesome?
<Mozart> I heard PPGR weren't allowed proper participation or something?
<Mozart> Awesome -> Your help was awesome.
<pappasadrian> what do you mean, proper participation?
<Mozart> They weren't allowed to send their own delegate.
<pappasadrian> not exactly
<pappasadrian> well, it's a weird story
<pappasadrian> i can tell you, if you have time
<pappasadrian> i suppose that's a "no"
<Mozart> I do indeed have time.
<pappasadrian> fair enough
<pappasadrian> okay, some background information at first
<pappasadrian> 1) one of the core values of PPGR is direct democracy
<pappasadrian> based on this, we've built our statute in a way that channels most (if not all) the decision-making to the base - the members of ppgr
<pappasadrian> the board only exists for typical reasons, and for representing the party and its opinions
<pappasadrian> except in urgent situations, where the board is entitled to taking decisions, which must get approved by the members later
<Mozart> Yeah, we've got a clause like that.
<pappasadrian> 2) before the ppeu incident, ppgr had a lot going on
<pappasadrian> mostly ideologically speaking
<pappasadrian> about people sending press releases in the name of the party that werent approved, etc
<pappasadrian> so most, if not all the members, didnt care too much about ppeu works
<pappasadrian> so
* Ikke (~Thijs_Mar@34-561-052-91.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #ppgr
<pappasadrian> wait, i need dates..
<Ikke> I heard there is a party here
<pappasadrian> indeed, but dont troll
<pappasadrian> anyway
<pappasadrian> tuesday, Nov. 27th, Mariotti sends an email to the board
<Ikke> are you asking for it
<Ikke> mozart gonna do a write up?
<pappasadrian> informing the rest of the board that engels has asked for a delegation from ppgr for the manchester conference, without much further explanation
<Mozart> Ikke: nah.
<pappasadrian> i asked for some explanations, such as what's the point of being represented if the party doesnt have an official position on ppeu issues, and i mentioned the problem about engel's "overdelegation" at barcelona, and some other points
<pappasadrian> mariotti answered that i was miserable about the issue
<pappasadrian> and that engels is a key person at ppi and ppeu, and that he doesnt want to break his relations with him
<pappasadrian> anyway, another member of the board also raised questions, but was convinced by mariotti, so he agreed to the delegation
<pappasadrian> a third member of the board just said "ok"
<pappasadrian> so we have 3 yes' and 1 no (me) so far
<pappasadrian> as i said at the conference, the other 3 didnt bother to answer
<pappasadrian> anyway, after several days of investigation in ppgr
<pappasadrian> we figured out that 2 others have said ok via personal email to mariotti
<pappasadrian> and the last one (of 7) said ok on the phone
<pappasadrian> nevertheless, apparently there wasnt any clarity on this
<pappasadrian> nobody could see how the decision was taken, except perhaps mariotti
<pappasadrian> anyway
<pappasadrian> the arbitration court of ppgr decided earlier today that this decision was null because it wasnt an open meeting of the board, as it is mandated by our statute
<pappasadrian> and it wasnt an urgent issue, since manchester's conference was announced months ago
<pappasadrian> oh, and ppgr wasnt informed at all about the possibility of remote delegation
<pappasadrian> *i mean, the rest of the board wasnt informed
<pappasadrian> idk if mariotti knew or not
<pappasadrian> that's about it
<pappasadrian> oh, and, just to be clear, i wasnt the president of the board during the incident, as davidd mentioned in #ppi
<pappasadrian> and as of saturday night, im not on the board anymore
<pappasadrian> and im also not a member of ppgr
<pappasadrian> and just fyi, there's a huge shitstorm about this in ppgr
<pappasadrian> idk when it will settle down
<pappasadrian> Mozart: ?
<Mozart> Just absorbing it.
<Mozart> Your party appears to be collapsing…
<Mozart> Why aren't you a member anymore?
<pappasadrian> basically because of the lack of transparency, and the lack of many members to embrace our core values (such as copyright reform, open source, direct democracy)
<pappasadrian> it was getting tiring
<pappasadrian> i've been constantly fighting such issues for the past 2 or 3 months
<pappasadrian> but this particular incident was just too much
<Mozart> Pity
<pappasadrian> because basically, after tuesday the 27th, i was left to believe that we'd discuss the topic about our delegation further
<Ikke> lets all just get together and buy a greek island and raid the mediterranean
<pappasadrian> since 2 members of the board had questions
<pappasadrian> but then i see ppgr being represented by engels on saturday
<pappasadrian> and i was asking "wtf?" everywhere
<pappasadrian> i was trying to find out what happened
<pappasadrian> none from the rest of the board answered to an email i sent
<Mozart> …
<Mozart> So…you quit?
<pappasadrian> yep
<pappasadrian> i'm better off putting my free time on OSS or EFF or something like that
<pappasadrian> politics is... well... politics
<pappasadrian> the board has been trying to cover this up for 5 days now
<Mozart> Yuck.
<pappasadrian> but they've failed so far
<pappasadrian> anyway, i dont think ppgr will collapse
<pappasadrian> but it sure is in the middle of its biggest crisis
<pappasadrian> (so far)
<Ikke> but these problems seem to be recurrant throughout the pirate parties
<pappasadrian> yes
<Ikke> we just need some guidelines set up I think
<pappasadrian> indeed
<pappasadrian> it's sad
<Ikke> but hell
<Ikke> the in/outflow is too high
<pappasadrian> i think it's like chickenpox
<pappasadrian> everyone has to go through it
<pappasadrian> it was too much for me, though
<Ikke> hence why I must go to bed
<pappasadrian> ah, +1
<pappasadrian> Mozart: i hope i was clear enough
<Mozart> Yeah, that was fine.
<Mozart> It's good to know what's going on.
<pappasadrian> well, that's how i see things
<pappasadrian> i'm pretty sure you'll hear more versions of the story if you ask in ppgr
εκπροσωπος μας ειναι ο papasadrian ?